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metalmancpa
26 Posts
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July 1st, 2008 18:00
Whining, crying, complaining - let it go
The XPS 630 has obviously caused many people grief. Some people purchased it under false pretenses as certain advertisied items never made it to the issued product, and this obviously surprised many of you once you received your units. And I bet many of you missed the 21 day return mark and then had to go through hoops and ladders to get anything (if anything) resolved.
Sure, I was lucky to have my issues come up within the 21 day period, and am being shipped a new replacement as per XPS tech supports suggestion after they attempted to troubleshoot my issues (not related to fans/lights/gaming). Personally, I got through to support quickly, and to this point Dell has resolved my issue. A new issue could arise if #2 unit fails, but for my first XPS 630 I receieved quick results.
In my eyes Dell is making some very big mistakes in dealing with the public on this issue(and probably other issues too). Maybe the advertisement for the XPS 630 was published and the fan/lights/socket issues came at the 23rd hour due to Dell "rushing" a product to market, and the big corporation didn't communicate properly, and let the units ship without informing the public of the changes (maybe, I'm just guessing). Maybe it took the complaints pouring in for Dell to realize their error, and they just haven't properly handled the situation (dealing with the public). Maybe it wasn't deceptive advertising - maybe it was careless business.
I consider myself a pessimistic consumer, as I believe most people should in these trying economic times. I spend my hard earned and devaluing money, trying very hard to know what I'm getting into by doing research. I am surprised that any knowledgeble techie would assume a computer problem won't happen. I was frustrated with my XPS 630 out-of-the-box experience, but I certainly wasn't surprised or angry. I just dealt with it. I understand what I'm dealing with when purchasing from a worldwide corporation. They sell in quantities, take shortcuts to save corporate bottom-line $$ to make sure the investors are happy, and risk things like this cropping up. It's been known for years that Dell farmed out much of their support to India, and any techie who has even a remote dealing with Dell feels smarter due to what appears to be a lack of knowledge on the other end of the phone.
I've been "taken" before, losing money on a purchase because "issues" arose and I wasn't protected by an easy out (withing a return policy). I had a three year problem with a car that I eventually got rid of, going to service time and time again. I took the risk.
Also, is the grass greener on "the other side"? Is never buying a Dell going to ensure that if I get an HP or a Gateway, etc, that these machines will be flawless? I kind of doubt it, as I assume other companies deal with the same issues that Dell does, pulling together various manufacturers hardware components, load a known problematic Bill Gates operating system, and tack on software from many vendors and hope the marriage works.
Come to these forums and look for help after you've exhausted any hope from Dell (again, you think other companies support systems don't have the same issues that Dell does?). I quietly harbor my frustration/anger/etc, but I've learned in life that no matter what, I will diplomatically attempt a resolution. Raising a fist in anger (or yelling at a clueless support person) rarely works, and when dealing with a big corporation like Dell we are just specks. This XPS 630 problem is not widely known, as I didn't really know about the issues. Only major product recalls make national news. And of course the conspiracy theorists may think that Dell can payoff the media to keep this sort of news quiet - and maybe that's true. But for me, I have only so much time to give to "fix" things in life. I've given up fighting issues before and I've had product issues cost me money, but it's the risk in life I take. If something eats you to the bone, then you must take the fight to higher levels. It will cost you time, but if you have the time (or even if you don't) you should write the letters or keep fighting for what you believe in. Just do it in a more mature manner. In this case I don't think the XPS 630 problem (or any of Dells problems) is something worth boycotting Dell for. Nobody's been killed by a defective part (at least not that i know of). And being a techie type who love computers and A/V stuff, I deal with techie issues all of the time. Sometimes things work perfectly out of the box and forever. Other times stuff fails and I must deal with it. There are bigger things in life to lose sleep over than a stupid computer.
- metalmancpa - I'm curious. I have a 630 on order and just learned about the whole "x16 only runs at x8 speed" issue today ( http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=Tech_Talk_XPS&message.id=68002&query.id=82137#M68002). Have you noticed any performance issues related to this, and would you still have purchased your 630 if you knew about this when you were making your buying decisions?
Matalmancpa,
So why is it you think that problems like this continue to occur? It's because most consumers just accept that they are going to get ripped off or be deceived by "big business". When consumers just accept that they are automatically going to get subpar products and service then that's what starts to happen. The more a company can get away with the more they will try. It is because of consumers that just roll over and accept that they were ripped or sold shoddy items that companies act they way the do today. Consumers enmasse have only themselves to blame for the current state of commercialism. It is backwards thinking that you are taking a risk when making a purchase. Going into the hospital for open heart surgery is a risk, buying a computer system or any other product should not be. What and how a company sells is controllable and while there are statistical anomalies that will occur and faulty products will make it out the door that should not be the expected norm.
The reason many of us "Whining, crying, complaining" people are posting here is to give something to potential customers we didn't have, a properly informed choice about the product they are considering purchasing and to continue to bring these issues to light. I'm glad that there are people here that are happy with what they got and aren't mad that they didn't receive the product as advertised but next time they get ripped off they need to remember why this keeps happening to them. As I've said in another post I've put together over 40 systems myself and have never had to return a piece of hardware for being defective and those parts were from large multinational companies. If Dell properly designed their systems and did thorough testing there would be a lot fewer issues happening with their products. I am not so naive as to believe that there should never be any problems or that some customers have unreasonable expectations but the issues with the 630 goes well beyond any of that. I am not here raising my fist in anger, I never yell at someone in customer service of any fashion nor have I resorted to name calling and I firmly believe people are entitled to post their point of view on a topic just as I can and will continue to do. So hopefully you can appreciate or understand this other side of the coin's point of view.
metalmancpa
26 Posts
699
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Posted July 1st, 2008 22:00
acs9000 - the issue of x8/x16 has no bearing on my use of a computer. I play games on my PS3 and PSP. I wanted a business powerhouse and I believe the XPS 630 will give me what I want ou of a home/office computer
Drange - I don't see it as consumers accepting that they are getting ripped off. Here's what I believe, using myself as an example. I have a life. I've watched two kids grow up, both out of college and one recently married. I have a job. I have chores around the house. I have family time. I shop. I wash my cars. I mow my lawn. In short, all of these things take up my time. I never profess to be the perfect time manager. But as a consumer, I only have so much time to give to "fight for my rights". I spend money, and I feel I have a right to get a decent product. Like watching sports - it's frustrating paying higher ticket prices for a watered down product. I pick my spots, and for me I can only give so much of my time dealing with product problems. the more money I spend, the more I'll fight. I will spend more time trying to resolve an issue with my car then I will with my computer. I'll spend more time resolving an issue with my computer then I will with my iPod. Oh I'll raise a stink, and I'll be persistant. But many times, in the end, I may "give up". You may think it's "rolling over" but I see it as running out of an alotment of time based on my own requirements.
Are big companies wrong for taking the approach they have over time? Less time for craftmanship and more time for producing mass quantities and choices. Big companies market to the consumer and try to make enough choices so people will buy. How many people would have a computer if there wasn't a department store full of choices, with different styles appealing to different people, different companies making differnet looks, and different price points appealing to different wallets. And companies face the costs of doing business, just like we face the cost of living.
This forum is a good place for others to come and learn firsthand from owners. No salesmanship, just experience. But some people whine about it instead of producing clean constructive criticism. Some people teach while others vent. I come here to learn, that's all I'm saying.
Phenomenal post Metalman....
I tried to post something similar in another thread and could not say it as eloquently as you did. I DO NOT own the 630, but was showing support to those that do, but I also wanted them to realize that name calling, slamming posters, smart comments towards CHRIS who was trying to help them...etc wasn't doing any good.
You owned a 630 and have more right to post something like I this than I will ever have.I hope that you don't start getting angry replies as your post was very insightful. Especially the part no guarentee that any other computer would work perfectly. and best of all that life is way to important to worry about a computer.
Sincerely Yours,
ESKYMI (JOE)
@eskymi wrote:
Phenomenal post Metalman....
I tried to post something similar in another thread and could not say it as eloquently as you did. I DO NOT own the 630, but was showing support to those that do, but I also wanted them to realize that name calling, slamming posters, smart comments towards CHRIS who was trying to help them...etc wasn't doing any good.
While you are commending him for his post and both of you are berating the name calling and slamming posts consider what is the intention of the name of this thread? "Whining, crying, complaining, let it go" is nothing but a slam at the people posting about something you don't agree with and calling them names. As for "smart comments" towards Chris, if you guys are following the threads you will see numerous posts thanking Chris for his work here and that the comments are not directed at him but instead are meant for management at Dell. Chris is a mediator between us and Dell management and he relays our messages and concerns to the proper people at Dell. That doesn't excuse ignorant posts by some but it does explain why there are a lot of very direct questions posted for Chris. As for the amount of time put into "Whining, crying and complaining" I can only speak for myself, but I only put in about 30 minutes a day making and responding to posts and that includes the ones trying to help others solve problems. My life is not consumed, as some seem to feel, by the 630 problems.
metalmancpa
26 Posts
699
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Posted July 2nd, 2008 03:00
Drange - I've been reading the 630 posts, and of course it's a mix of level headed criticism and assistance for others. but there are also those who really do complain/whine etc more than offer up assistance or look for some themselves.
I don't accuse anybody of being consumed by the 630 issue. I will admit though, by the looks of your signature the 630 issues have at least given you a sarcastic edge.
@metalmancpa wrote:
Drange - I've been reading the 630 posts, and of course it's a mix of level headed criticism and assistance for others. but there are also those who really do complain/whine etc more than offer up assistance or look for some themselves.
While I'm sure there are those that do come onto the forums just to complain for the sake of complaining I don't really see that being any different from the people that strictly come onto the forums to say wow my system is so great, I don't have any problems, Dell is the best company ever. I guess there will always be the extremes of both sides but everyone is entitled to express themselves how they choose.
I don't accuse anybody of being consumed by the 630 issue. I will admit though, by the looks of your signature the 630 issues have at least given you a sarcastic edge.
You are right Metalmancpa my sig now has a sarcastic bite to it, although that may be more to do with my personality than any Dell issues and I try to control myself but it does get loose once in a while.:smileytongue: I only changed it to that a few days ago after waiting over 2 months for Dell to fix the numerous issues of the 630.Message Edited by Drange on 07-02-2008 01:47 AMfoehammer25
201 Posts
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Posted July 2nd, 2008 05:00
I do not think anyone has "cried". But I do think Metal is calling people names in this thread by using the language he has chosen in the title. You do not know us. Just because you do not have time to invest in a hobby such as computer "enthusiast", doesn't mean others don't. We all have different lives. Saying that your life is the model that should decide who should or should not voice their criticism of Dell is rediculous. Our country was build on the notion of free speech. If you do not wish to participate in the forums regarding the 630 issues then that is your right.
If high gas prices do not hurt your wallet doesn't mean that others are not struggling to make it day in and day out. But your attitude is that because you can afford gas prices than everyone else should just "let it go". Not the greatest analogy, but if the fight against Dell over the 630 issues takes up too much of your time, then don't do it. But in no way can you say that others should just "let it go" simply because that is the approach that you feel is best for you. We have every right to complain about anything we do not like in this country, and the 630 issue is one that some of us have decided to fight. Why? Because we feel that we have had enough of the corporate practice of stepping on the little people.
Accept the inevitable if you like. It is your right. Some of us have chosen to stand up for ourselves, even against a corporate giant such as Dell, knowing full well that we will get little out of it in the end. For some of us that is not only our right, but our responsibility.
Our issues with a computer are certainly small compared to other world issues. But it is one that we have chosen to stand up against. I have certainly stood up against other issues that are far smaller, and some I considered far more important. But I will take my 30 min a day to post on this web site to stand up for my rights as a consumer. If you feel that your 30 min can be better spent doing something else, then you should go do that. But I bet it took you a good 10 min to write up your post, and who knows how much time reading our posts.
ElkWapiti
513 Posts
699
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Posted July 1st, 2008 19:00
A good, healthy approach.
Even more appropos when many (most?) of these machines are purchased by gamers and for other comptuer hobbies. It's a toy, not life and death.
(Well, maybe if it is a first person shooter it is life and death.)